The Vic Coalition’s pledge to buy 25 trains capable of diesel or electric overhead power for the Melton (Ballarat line) and Wyndham Vale (Geelong line) services is an interesting idea to boost capacity and frequency for western Melbourne, with flow-on benefits for the rest of the V/Line network.
Media reports and the statement itself refer to them as hybrid, but they’re probably more accurately described as bi-mode.
It’s good to see the Coalition thinking about the future V/Line fleet, away from the VLocity train’s 25+ year old design, as well as addressing Melton capacity.
But as always, the devil is in the detail.
How much?
Firstly, the cost. The statement says $1.7 billion for 25 trains, presumably including any associated infrastructure works required, such as depot and stabling upgrades. That makes them $68 million each.
A follow-up statement from the Libs says these new trains would replace 25 diesel trains, to boost capacity on other lines. Makes sense.
But it also makes it clear that they’re talking about three car trains, not six car trains as I first assumed: Introducing new hybrid electric trains on the Melton and Wyndham Vale lines will free up 25 three car set V/Line trains to be deployed across the regional network, delivering more seats for regional passengers.
Okay, so if the $1.7b is for 25 x three car trains, how does that compare to recent train costs?
- The first 25 electric X’Trapolis 2.0 six car trains are costing $986 million, again including associated infrastructure upgrades. That’s $39.44 million each (or about $20 million per three cars)
- The order placed in 2023 for 23 diesel VLocity three car trains was $601 million, or $26 million each
John Hearsch from Rail Futures was right to highlight (Age, paywall) that these proposed trains are more expensive than other types. They appear to be 3.4 times the cost of X’Trapolis 2.0 electric trains, or 2.6 times the cost of diesel VLocity trains.
The ABC noted they hope to have them in service from 2030. Given NSW started their bi-mode train procurement in 2017 and they’re now expected in service from 2028, that seems very optimistic.
Where will they run?
If the new trains replace existing VLocity trains on outer suburban services, then we can assume they would replace existing peak short run paths – that makes sense because the RRL tracks are basically full in peak.
EDIT: I’m also assuming they would run in 6 car formations like the VLocities, so each train has a higher capacity.
The Libs’ statement also mentions “additional, potential City Loop services every hour during peaks on the Melton and Wyndham Vale lines” – and The Age’s article says Matthew Guy has proposed the extra trains “access suburban tracks after Sunshine and run through either the City Loop or Metro Tunnel”.
I suspect that would be challenging.
- If the new trains run through the Metro Tunnel, they would require the exact door configuration matching the HCMT fleet, because of the Platform Screen Doors in the tunnel stations. They’d also need CBTC in-cab signalling equipment.
- If they use the City Loop, it’s also complicated. Tracks connecting the Sunbury line to the Loop have been removed. If they are put back, then that adds another junction that reduces capacity, and eats into the capacity just freed up for the Craigieburn and Upfield lines in the Loop.
- The latter option reintroduces complex interactions between lines that have mostly been removed since the Metro Tunnel opened: V/Line Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo lines interacting with the Sunbury line interacting with the Craigieburn/Upfield lines lines, interacting with the Seymour/Shepparton line. Each interaction reduces capacity and increases delays.
- Finally, what appetite for risk do the authorities have for regularly running diesel bi-mode trains regularly through underground tunnels (even if in electric mode)?
The best option would seem to be just using the existing paths, with capacity boosted thanks to trains carrying more people. (Of course they don’t need to be hybrid/bi-mode for this.)
The secondary benefit is freeing up VLocity trains to boost capacity elsewhere. That’s a big plus.
That includes the underserved Albury line – I have been told that some VLocities were built with provision for conversion to Standard Gauge, so yes, this is possible.
What happened to Melton electrification?
The Coalition say they would continue with Melton electrification alongside their plan. Their proposal is to get a capacity benefit sooner.
Labor’s answer to this is that in the short term, capacity is best boosted by running longer 9 car V/Line trains, rather than trying to create extra paths on congested tracks.
They’ve also told me in the past that Melton electrification is taking time because of the sequencing – level crossing removals and Melton station rebuild just finished, new stabling at Cobblebank, the Sunshine upgrade and untangling tracks around Tottenham, then electrification and track expansion.
The sequence seems to make sense – the problem is that it’s happening far later than it should have, especially for a project promised in 2018 – let alone considered since the 1970s.
(By the way: Matthew Guy on ABC Radio on Wednesday morning implied that the PTUA does not support track expansion. This is not correct. Audio here; begins at about 12 mins.)
The political disquiet about delayed progress on Melton capacity reminds me of a bigger version of the delays building Southland station a decade and a half ago.
The exact timeline for electrification is still unclear, and there’s also been no pledge for a much-needed additional station at Mt Atkinson.
So no wonder the Libs are looking to see what can be done sooner.
The quest for bi-mode trains is a good one, though not necessarily like this. It does need to happen, as a way of starting to transition V/Line from diesel to electric operation. And they need to find a way to bring the cost down.
And it’s good to see a focus on western Melbourne, an area which has been neglected on public transport for far too long, despite huge population growth.
19 replies on “Bi-mode trains for Melb’s west”
Another reason bi-modal trains wouldn’t be as efficient in Victoria is there is not that much regional track that goes under wires in the Melbourne area, compared to NSW. So they wouldn’t get much benefit from the expensive electric tech. I also heard Matthew Guy say they would enable the diesel fume problem at Southern Cross to be reduced, which implies the trains would have batteries. Bi-modal hybrids, perhaps? The concept needs a lot more thought.
One of the issues with the buffet cars on the Albury line is that, unlike the prior locomotive-hauled trains, each three-car set has its own buffet and passengers cannot walk between sets. So either only one module is active at a time, or each requires a separate staff member. So maybe a mix of with- and without-buffet sets would mean being able to advertise which half of the train has that facility at any given time?
This doesn’t sound like an ideal solution.. Just get on with electrification..
Call me cynical, but I feel that the SRL East is why the Melton Electrification hasn’t even started yet.
The funds that SRL East requires is eye watering, and with the state of our budget, they probably couldn’t do both and prioritised the SRL East.
While bi-modal trains are a good idea, this proposal is flawed at best.
Going denser than V/Locity/Sprinter is a very short-term idea, Melton will probably be electrified by the time any get built, so they’ll only be useful for WV.
And this is before getting into the Metro Tunnel/City Loop section.
I just hope they don’t give the tender to CAF
It’s sad to see that Daniel put more effort into this piece than the Coalition did into their entire ‘hybrid’ thought-bubble. This is just another vacuous slogan in the guise of policy.
Sequencing is everything. And while Labor deserves a thwack across the bum for being so slow, at least they’re getting the order right by building new stabling yards and fixing Sunshine and Melton stations.
If voters in the west somehow return anybody but a Labor candidate, they’ll get exactly what they deserve over the coming four years.
A: Call me cynical but imo the MARL and the capacity occupation in the munnel derailed the entire WRP with a project that has wider support across melbourne.
Hard to get some bayside marginal excited by getting rid of the mehness of vline but building not just 1 airport train but now 2 of them with the eastern suburbs airport line
Good to see you picked up on the Metro Tunnel door spacings, it could be done if the new sets were built to the same specifications as the H.C.M.T.s, but then the trains need to run through to Caulfield as they don’t be able to turn trains back through the Tunnel. The Vlocities take a long time to board/disembark at major stations, I’ve seen them at Tarneit and Cobblebank/Melton and they are not designed for crush loads which they carry in the peaks.
I would have assumed that the next V/Line rollingstock acquisition would be some longer distance trains to replace the last of the N sets on Swan Hill and VLocities on Bairnsdale/Albury/Warrnambool. Any VLocities freed up by that could then be allocated to Melton/WV (with BG conversion required for some of course).
I do wonder though, by 2030 the Sprinters would be due for retirement and by 2035 there’d be retirement plans for the early VLos, so is this effectively the start of the VLocity 2.0?
Melton and WV (and Wallan) do need electrification though.
We don’t need diesel-anything interurban trains for suburban services, just string up the wires already and order another batch of HCMTs for 10-car operation. It’s not going to be a repeat of Sunbury where shiny new 160 km/h Vlocity trains were replaced with clapped out Comeng sets that could barely keep up with the timetable while Diggers Rest was downgraded from a “premium” staffed station to unmanned.
6-car X’Trapolis 2.0 sets are not the way forward unless they can be extended to 9 carriages. Given that the government can’t even be bothered extending Armadale, Toorak and Hawksburn stations to fit a 7-car HCMT (let alone a 10-car HCMT) I have zero faith in any more of Melbourne’s suburban stations or rolling stock being made even longer if/when the Metro Tunnel is running with full-size trains (unless the government backflips and only ever uses 7 carriages to cut costs).
We didn’t buy nearly enough HCMTs to cover an exponentially-increasing population (the entire population of Australia in 2000 will be the population of greater Melbourne in 2050), while the X’Trapolis 2.0 order will probably cover just the Craigieburn and Upfield lines with no more trains planned until the Siemens and X’Trapolis (100) trains are retired. The X’Trapolis trains on the Burnley and Clifton Hill groups can’t carry jack during peak or on a footy night (and stopping all stations of course to keep car travel faster even accounting for being stopped dead on the Eastern Carpark for half an hour), even with half the seats having been ripped out this side of 2009 which just means standing all the way from the city to Nunawading or even Ringwood while the train stops all stations with no-one getting off between the city and Box Hill.
In regards to whether they’re talking about three-car trains or six-car trains, they’ve also published social media posts and statements saying that each train will be able to “fit more than 1,200 passengers”.
Given that a crush loaded 6-car X’Trapolis 100 has a capacity of roughly 1,400 passengers, roughly comparable to the 1,200 passenger capacity that they’re committing to, that would suggest to me that they might actually be talking about 6-car trains after all.
I’m not sure I agree with your conclusion they are talking about the order being 25 x 3-car units. They have made comparisons that the Vlocity sets have a crush load of 444 passengers (incorrect, that’s seated load – they can carry around 650) to the equivalent 6-car X’trapolis 2.0 crush capacity of 1,200.
And unlikely to be a simple 1 for 1 replacement – one of the benefits of electrification should be running more trains at an increased frequency. Currently there is only a 20 min ‘local’ service to both Melton and Wyndham Vale in peaks, limited due to RRL paths, mixed in with services to Waurn Ponds, Warrnambool, Wendouree/Ararat and Bendigo.
Wyndham Vale already runs 9 car services in the peaks (more extended last month in anticipation of West Tarneit demand) and Melton will be next year (especially now the new elevated station has opened) – and if they go down the route of running them via the City Loop, they would be restricted to 6 or 7-car operation due to the platform length.
This was one of the yet-to-be-realised benefits of the Metro Tunnel – platforms built for 10 car operation in the future.
Could you fit these lines into the City Loop? A complicated timetable with every second Craigieburn train running direct to terminate Southern Cross (platforms 7+8 or 15+16) might allow every 2nd train from Melton and/or Wyndham Vale service to squeeze in. But not something I’d advocate.
Running Melton trains via the Metro Tunnel seems feasible on a 10 min cycle – Sunbury, Airport, Watergardens, Melton (& repeat) all about 2.5 mins apart, using CBTC. This leaves Wyndham Vale trains to run direct to Southern Cross, with a 10 min peak service possible on the RRL pair without the Melton locals.
Future paths on RRL would be freed in 15 years if MM2 is funded/built, with most Geelong trains using that.
If Melton or Wyndham Vale electrification still happens medium term, they could redeploy the sets to the future Wallan Line, running under the wires to Craigieburn. But that does push back a solution for the outer north.
Idling at Southern Cross – if they are fitted with batteries you’d want pods on selected V/Line platforms for recharging between runs. Bi-modal – again, wires in Southern Cross so they can utilise electric mode in the platforms.
On sequencing on the long road to electrification – highly relevant is the previous 18km duplication from Melton to Deer Park West, funded in 2016 state budget & finished in late 2019 (other works completed in 2020). Originally a standalone state $518M investment but it seems later rolled into the statewide Regional Rail Revival program which was largely financed by the Federal Coalition (Turnbull era) Asset Recycling Scheme after the Port sale. Someone might correct me here?
The most recent state budget includes a joint state/federal commitment of $152M towards detailed design works – in an ideal world, these works would start in the 2027 budget, ready to switch on as soon as the Sunshine Superhub is completed.
Also note the Sunshine Superhub *does not* include a proposed second track pair from Sunshine to Deer Park West, despite being in some project diagrams/animations. See – https://x.com/craig_halsall/status/2094994363919331791
An order of additional HCMT trains is needed for the ALP electrification plan to be realised. As are commitments for additional stations at Thornhill Park, Mt Atkinson (Melton Line), Truganina & Mambourin (Black Forest Rd) (Wyndham Vale Line).
Your analysis of the proposal is good, but every time I think about the repercussions of bi-mode trains and how they could work within the existing system, my head aches.
Good comments as always.
@David, interesting thought on the buffet. Yes the separate buffets is an issue – from what I hear they staff one for part of the journey, then swap.
Making it just one per train (if operationally they can guarantee it), and making it clear for people when booking could be a way around it.
@Hayden, yes I was thinking about where they could terminate if they did use the Metro tunnel. Caulfield isn’t idea. Westall?
@Heihachi_73, Australia’s population in 2000 was 19 million. I don’t think Melbourne’s going to get that big by 2050.
@Anonymous/Craig, I would love to be wrong on the 3-car vs 6-car point. It would really help if they were clear about this.
But @Craig you don’t get more trains on the line if half of them are electric but the track capacity isn’t expanded. This is why a one-for-one replacement seems more likely to me.
As you say, very complicated to get them into the Loop (or the Metro Tunnel, which was mentioned on day one but seemingly not since).
@Daniel – “Running Melton trains via the Metro Tunnel seems feasible on a 10 min cycle – Sunbury, Airport, Watergardens, Melton (& repeat) all about 2.5 mins apart, using CBTC.
This leaves Wyndham Vale trains to run direct to Southern Cross, with a 10 min peak service possible on the RRL pair without the Melton locals.”
The merge of the services west of Sunshine would however be a capacity problem without the proposed quaduplication going ahead though (which also helps Melton trains avoid the flat junction conflicts) and it assumes the bi-mode trains will actually be feasible in the Metro Tunnel.
A lot of unresolved questions.
Regarding Matthew Guys proposals for the Warrnambool line, some of which will be enabled by this Bi-mode project for the West. Is he oversimplifying things? The Warrnambool Standard states “The Liberals had previously committed to “immediately” redeploy existing surplus stock to ensure the majority of the Warrnambool line services would have six carriages”. How much “surplus” does VLine currently have & would there be enough surplus sets of three to ensure the majority of the Warrnambool line services would have six carriages?”
Mr Guy unveiled the Liberals’ suburban train plan for Melbourne’s western suburbs, which would free up 25 three-carriage VLocity trains – five of which would be redeployed to the Warrnambool line”. What would be the timeline on this? How long would it take to implement ?
Mr Guy also stated that the $2 billion project would provide the additional VLocity rolling stock needed to ensure every Warrnambool service operated six-carriage trains with the possibility of extra services. “We’ll have additional stock to look at another one or two daily services. So it gives us the trains to do it once and for all,” Mr Guy said.
Is this realistic? Would the additional five Vlocity sets, if added to the “surplus” sets, be enough to cover every Warrnambool service plus adding additional services? It all sounds a bit improbable to me.
I am from Melbourne’s west, and I am a skeptic of the Liberals plans. As some people have pointed out, these trains the Liberals want are more expensive than the XTrapolis 2.0 and the HCMTs. The Liberals talks about cheaper options, this is not one of them. And I think I read something that what the Liberals are proposing is not suitable for Melton or Wyndham Vale lines, and many people on those lines want electrification. I agree with some of the comments is that this is a thought bubble that the Liberals had paid little attention to. And don’t get me started with political stunts like 110 km/h on the Princes Freeway from Laverton which is a dangerous idea that could cost lives (leave it for rural freeways instead of urban freeways).
I note Mr Guy seems to be now silent on the idea that the proposed trains could run via the Metro tunnel; his latest comments on this post talk about the City Loop only
https://www.facebook.com/VicLibLeader/posts/pfbid02irokK12UnQVDrBW2C63BSozerY1GKQ2cHqUhLyW88Qvgc5CuTi1RXSG3tTPCQCjRl
@Peter notably it’s not just the Libs talking about longer trains to Warrnambool – the govt and V/Line are already testing 6 car trains on that line, so I’d expect it’ll happen for some services (likely Friday evenings and weekends) soon.
Thanks Daniel. I knew VLine had been testing the six car set up on the Warrnambool line & that these services would begin sometime soonish on weekends. This will require extra carriages but my query was about how realistic Matthew Guy’s promises of upgrading all Warrnambool services to six carriages were. Do you know if VLine actually has a “surplus” of any kind or enough “additional stock” that could be committed to the Warrnambool line to upgrade all current services & add additional services?